The Rotten Fruit of Christianity | Immoral From The First Bite

This is Luna, and this is Éowyn. I mean,
that’s not really their names… I haven’t a clue who they are; this is just a stock
video that I brought with Patreon money (yeah, that’s right, this is what your money goes
goes on – how do you feel about that, huh? Hmm?), but for allegorical sake, play along
now! This is Luna, and this is Éowyn, and they are sisters who love each other dearly…
most of the time, at least, I mean, they’re sisters. Anyhow, before Éowyn was born, Luna
had an adorable finger-painting experience. Her father laid out a sheet of paper, placed
her upon it, and gave her the most colourful of paints, and he said it was good (which
is a tad arrogant, but, you know, no one’s perfect). He then said unto her (because he
spoke weirdly), Luna, my child, you can paint on any inch of this paper, but you are not
to spill paint beyond it. Luna, however, was a baby… so was too young to understand.
Duh. In a cute-rage of excitement, she then did the unthinkable… she got paint damn
on floor! *sigh* Her father then smiled warmly, let out a heartful chuckle, and said unto
himself, you know I’m not sure what I was thinking putting you in this room Luna, I
could’ve just put you in the Kitchen where the titles are much easier to clean. Aw, aren’t
you just adorable, my sweet, innocent child… except no, not really! “Bad girl”, he
bellowed! “What is this that thou hast done?” “Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed
above all cattle (honestly, I really don’t know what he had against specifically cattle…
he’s a bit of weird bloke. Probably has a repressed bovine fetish. That’s my guess
*cough*)– he continued, thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of
thy life. He then snatched the paper and paints from under Luna, cast her outside of his home,
and watched from a distance as she struggled to survive. A few years later, the father’s
marketing team has a great idea (and yes, I stole this background music from the Internet
Historian – he is one true god, and he’s really got me into Jazz as of late *cough*).
And thus, Éowyn was born, and while holding her tiny, precious hand, the feather got serious,
and said unto Éowyn, blood of my blood, “Just as sin came into the world through one [messy
child], and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned”,
including you, little one. And he then cast Éowyn to the streets because of her sisters’
“crime”… of spilling a bit of paint. Upon the streets,Luna soon found Éowyn (which
their father tried to take credit for, as it was a good thing), and then the two sisters
endured a very hard couple of years (which their father did not try to take credit for,
as it was a bad thing), but eventually, thanks to Luna’s sharp wits and the evolved empathy
of older apes, they found themselves a safe and stable environment in Fosters Home for
Children who’s Parents have Imaginary Friends. They did not live happily everafter, however,
as their father kept sending them letters in which he threatened (loving, he insists)
to infinitely torture them for Luna’s spilling the paint, but the two sisters didn’t care,
for they were strong. A few years later,their father had yet another child, Akara, and in
a moment of clarity, in the reflection of her beautiful eyes, he saw the folly of his
ways. “What have I doneth?” He said unto himself. “I am a terrible father! I must
apologise to Luna and Éowyn at once, and whether they find it in their hearts to forgive
me or not, I must love them with all my heart for the rest of my days.” … But then he
had another great idea: “I’ve got it!” he gapsed, “I could forgive them by torturing
and crucifying my newborn, Akara! Of course! Why didn’t I think of this before?! And
so obvious! I’m– I’m so moral! I’m so loving, and perfect, and oh… I’m touching
myself tonight! The end. What you’ve just seen, as given away by the annotations, is
a parody of the morally bankrupt Christian doctrine of Original Sin – that is, the
abominable notion that a child (you) can inherit the sins of another (Adam and Eve) – and
whilst I’ve had a memeliciously fun time depicting the depravity of this teaching (and
hopefully it’s at least given you smile), I now want to get a lot more serious (and
so, please forgive the change in tone). According to the Christian narrative, god created man,
gave him a garden, told him not to do something, and then created woman to get man to do that
something (which is just one of countless examples of Christianity’s deep disdain
for half the human race). And in response to this transgression, god cast man and woman
from the Garden, and cursed them to eat of the ground for the days of their lives, and
additionally cursed women to have very severe childbearing, but he didn’t stop there,
oh no, his misogyny was only just getting started! “Unto the woman he said, I will
greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;
and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee”, effectively rendering
half the human race as cattle… and I say “half the human race” because, of course,
according to Christianity, all humans inherit this curse. You, me, and everybody else are
guilty of Adam and Eve’s sin of eating a fruit from a tree, and consequently we all
deserve eternal damnation (hell), in which our eyes will be burnt from our skull, our
skin stripped from our bones, and our bone crushed to dust, only for us to be at once
rejuvenated to experience it again and again and again and again, forever… Or, if you
squint real hard, you can conjure a slightly more tolerable interpretation (as is the case
with Jehovah’s Witnesses’), but in any case, you are condemned by the actions of an ancestor.
Now it has to be said: This is not only grotesquely immoral, but logically insane! And yet, Christians,
in the greatest display of stockholm syndrome of all time, defend and worship such ghastly
story and immoral monster: “We are sinners. We are fallen short of the glory of god.”
“God planned to magnify the mercy, and grace, and patience, and kindness, and goodness,
and wrath, and justice of his son before Adam ever existed!” “The Bible is clear about
the impact of Adam and Eve’s disobedience. Their sin brought corruption and death to
the whole world and all their children.” “The bible tells us that we have inherited
the guilt of Adam. Through the sin of Adam, all men sinned. We carry the guilt of Adam’s
sin!” “I would say that Adam can be regarded as the federal head of the human race. That
is to say, he is our representative or proxy before God so that what he does he does as
our representative.” “Look, what Scripture tells us is that all of mankind are children
of wrath. We are objects of the hatred of God by nature.” “He affirmed that all
humanity – all subsequent humanity – inherited from Adam both legal guilt and moral corruption.”
“Just read this book, and believe it all!” It’s ironic, don’t you think? That these
pathetic apes lecture us on what’s moral, whilst they parade the worst moral teaching
of all time as if it’s worthy of veneration. To go back to the parody that opens this video,
any decent human would look upon the suffering inflicted on Luna, Éowyn and Akara with disgust,
and would utterly condemn the moral immonster responsible, but decorate such depravity in
religious garments, and you’ll get otherwise decent humans to not only pardon the immoral
monster, but worship him (especially, it must be said, if you promise them great rewards
for their credulity, and offer just enough ambiguity for them to resist their torments
of cognitive dissonance). The subtitle of Christopher Hitchens’ God is Not Great is
that Religion Poisons Everything – it makes otherwise decent people say and do atrocious
things, and the veneration of Original Sin, ladies and gentlemen, is a textbook example!
And talking of Hitchens, here’s an irresistible fruit of knowledge plucked from his mind:
“Is it moral to believe that your sins, yours and mine, ladies and gentlemen, brothers
and sisters, can be forgiven by the punishment of another person? Is it ethical to believe
that? I would submit that the doctrine of vicarious redemption by human sacrifice is
utterly immoral. I might, if I wished, if I knew any of you, you were my friends, or
even if I didn’t know you, but I just loved the idea of you (compulsory love is another
sickly element of Christianity, by the way), but suppose I could say, look, you’re in debt,
I’ve just made a lot of money out of a God bashing book, I’ll pay your debts for you.
Maybe you’ll pay me back someday, but for now I can get you out of trouble. I could
say, if I really loved someone who’d been sentenced to prison, if I could find a way
of saying I’d serve your sentence, I try and do it. I could do what Sydney Carton does
in A Tale of Two Cities, if you like? I’m very unlikely to do this unless you’ve been
incredibly sweet to me. I’ll take your place on the scaffold, but I can’t take away your
responsibilities. I can’t forgive what you did. I can’t say you didn’t do it. I can’t
make you washed clean. The name for that in primitive Middle Eastern society was, was,
scapgoating: You pile the sins of the tribe on a goat and you drive that goat into the
dessert to die of thirst and hunger, and you think that you’ve taken away the sins of
the tribe. It’s a positively immoral doctrine that abolishes the concept of personal responsibility,
on which all ethics and all morality must depend!” And lastly, I simply have to share
a beautiful insight regarding Original Sin from no other than Mark Twain, who’s work
titled Letters from the Earth I am currently reading, highly recommend, and have given
a free link to below. But before doing so, I just want to sign off by saying that I’m
Stephen Woodford, thank you kindly for the view, and an extra special thank you to my
wonderful patrons and those of you who’ve supported the channel via other means. You
enable me to move old trees that still bare fruit to our new fields, such as the one to
follow: In Letters from the Earth, Twain speaks of the innocence of Adam and Eve before they
consumed from tree of knowledge of good and evil, and compares them, as I did in my parody,
to children. Twain writes: “God had warned the man and the woman that they must not eat
of the fruit of a certain tree. And he added a most strange remark: he said that if they
ate of it they should surely die. Strange, for the reason that inasmuch as they had never
seen a sample death they could not possibly know what he meant. Neither would he nor any
other god have been able to make those ignorant children understand what was meant, without
furnishing a sample. The mere word could have no meaning for them, any more than it would
have for an infant of days.” Indeed, even if the stories of the Bible were true, before
eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve had no concept whatsoever
of good and evil, and thus they couldn’t intend to act in accordance to either – as
highlighted by them not recognising their lack of clothing. Before The Fall, they were
naked, unaware of evil. They were, like Luna in my parody, utterly ignorant. Even according
to the Christian narrative, Adam and Eve were innocent children who no more could be held
accountable for their act of eating from the tree, than Luna can be held accountable for
spilling paint, and yet god (who’s adherents claim is all-powerful and all-loving) condemned
not only his children, but all children to come! This is a grotesquely immoral, repulsive
story, and the fact that we teach this to children, as fact – with tax payers money
no less – is an insult to human dignity! Here’s the truth, according to the emancipation
of science: You are not born evil. You do not deserve eternal damnation. You are simply
an imperfect ape – an evolved mammal that’s a single member of a single species on a single
planet in a single solar system in a single galaxy in grand cosmos, and while you’ll
never be perfect, if you do your best, your best will be good enough.


  1. On the 4th of April I'll be speaking on stage with Aron Ra, Rachel Oates, Lloyd Evans, David Worley, Fay the Most Gracious, and more at David Game College, 31 Jewry St, London EC3N 2ET. If you're about, please come along! Will be a blast to hangout:

  2. You think that's bad, the book of Job is one of the most embarrassing things in all religion. Why would they write that? 🤦

  3. Well said Thank you If I were to be near Jewry St London I would most surely stop by and hangout. Will it be videoed?

  4. I did read the Bible, some christian told me that I should understand if I did so, but I was so confused. First God make Adam and Eve, they get in trouble and God create a sin that would follow them and their family, then Adam and Eve died and their grandchildren start to ** around in two cities due to the sin God gave them, so God then chosen to kill everyone to get rid of sin he had created, he just spare some few people that was good and free from sin. So why did Jesus need to die to save us from that sin? What went wrong in God's plan? What was the point with killing a whole world if the sin did not die? Is God illogical and a flawed God?
    But now I know why there is so few religious book clubs.

  5. It always amazes me how we believe what we do. I bought religious doctrine hook, line, and sinker; yet looking back on it now, it is so obvious to me how completely messed up the teachings are. I can't even be mad at my dad for the way he treated us kids for leaving the religion, I just feel sorry for him. We you bring up points like this, my dad always would say, "You cannot understand, we just don't have the ability to know what is best, God does, and he is doing all this for a reason." Yeah, cause he is a sociopath if he existed.

  6. "Letters From The Earth" is Twain at his unfettered finest. It is laugh out loud funny while being one of the sharpest scalpels to ever slice open the parasitic pustule of religion and expose the hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy that constitutes it's pernicious influence.

  7. This was a great video, thank you. I miss Hitchens, and never felt sad when someone passed except when he did. He is the one that truly woke me up. I realized that it is the people that bring the truth of this god in the bible to the surface, that are the most attacked. Because deep down inside they know they are being abused, but they just cant admit it to themselves.

  8. I put this elsewhere in the comments but I think it's important. I liked Daniel Quinn's take on the story in his book Ishmael. Basically the Garden of Eden and the story of Cain and Abel were stolen stories. They don't make sense in our culture where food can be owned. But if you look at it from the point of view of the people conquered, a loosely connected, nomadic, tribal people inhabiting the southern part of the Saudi peninsula, these stories explain what's wrong with their neighbors to the north (the people that spread the superculture that now encompasses 99.9% of humans):

    We the southern people, Abel, live in the hands of the gods. We don't worry about running the world because we trust the gods. But the northern people, Cain, take the world into their own hands. They ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, the fruit of God's tree, and think they are now possessed of His knowledge. Their curse is to toil all their days under the sun in order to eat, working for every scrap. Had they but listened and trusted God, He would provide them food as he does us. The northerners (Cain) so jealous of God's esteem in us (Abel), are murdering us, watering their fields with our blood.

  9. You are SUCH a cowardly little bitch. You refuse to attack ANYTHING that isn't conservative or Christian. Let's here one damn "logical" video about how the left or Muslims are wrong.

  10. Rationality Rules! Wow, powerful stuff! Each day, I'm amazed at you young prime, primates! You are, many of you, worthy heirs to the oh so missed Hitch! You echoed my thoughts, as I watched that clip, for the umpthteen time! (I go back, to hear his voice!) I want to be there in April, so badly!! Have a bast, and I'll pray to the wise ape that someone posts it on YouTube for at homes like me! 👏😘💖☮️🎃

  11. And I thought only the kidnapping, enslavement, raping, torture, misogyny, homophobia, and genocide was bad.

    So happy to be done with the self imposed guilt of this farce.

  12. And yet it is mostly religious people who most strongly condemn identity politics as if their religion has zero relation to the same concept

  13. They invented a disease so they could sell you a cure. It's the most insidious marketing tactic ever created.

  14. Great video! I have waited a long time for a video like this. Somehow Christians reason that there is some kind of cosmic justice done by giving the whipping boy 20 lashes. The irrationality of the concept of Jesus dying for our sins and taking our punishment on himself needs to be pointed out over and over again.

  15. Why are you playing along their ridiculous storyline? Cant you see that it is possible to explain whatever setting is given to the situation?
    Like, what if the deity tried to let first two humans learn from each other but also to control them, in suck a way as we control robots. So the early prototypes went rogue and disregarded the command, so it tossed them away. Can it be it?
    What is the fruit was magical or one of its kind and the deity was a collector and just got mad at the primitive beings?
    What if the fruit was of vital importance to the survival of the humans?
    The point is, one can explain everything, and come up with far better examples than I did, given time. What do you know about the situation, apart from its ridiculous fairy tale version given by an ancient book?

  16. Don’t forget, God in his infinite wisdom, created Man without the ability to know right from wrong, and then gave the commandment to not eat from the tree of knowledge, which will then give him the knowledge of knowing right from wrong. Is this irony, or stupidity, or what?

  17. Original sin can only have occurred if Adam and Eve existed so how can a religious person accept that evolution happened? People like Ken Ham at least follow their religion properly.

  18. thank you Rationality Rule for waking up people on a regular basis with various shots of common sense…….

  19. You're not only trying to show a Christian teaching up for being intuitively horrid, you're outright mocking it. And the way you're mocking it is reminding of an ad hominem fallacy to an extent which is too close for comfort.
    Why not just leave the mocking out of it and fairly criticize it in a calm and thoughtful manner? You're great when it comes to rationally analyzing various things. But when it comes to Christianity especially, you seem emotionally triggers, which seems to (at least somewhat) cloud your ability to act as a rational agent.

  20. Hey 👋
    You are right. Christian Theology is bad, when you misrepresent it. 🤓

    Original sin is not about the inheretence of sin, but about our state of being. Adam and Eve are representative of our most innerst, which is probably the only thing that is not predetermined by God: "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". (Roman's 3,23)

    The Bible states multiple times, that everyone is a sinner. Everyone. Even if the Story of Genesis would not be in the Bible, the same theological problem of original sin would exist.

    Also you don't get the redemption part. Death is the natural consequence of sin. Sin is not being perfect, which is only possible by accepting and loving the only possible perfect being with all your heart. God is life and God is perfect. Imperfect beings not totally grounded in him, cannot be with him. Being divorced from the source of all life brings death. It is not a punishment, like in the modern judicial sense, but the natural consequence.

    Gosh, all you would have needed to do, is read some basic Christian doctrine.

  21. Not that I believe in a magical dude in the sky. But if you look at the 20th century alone it you will see millions of people slaughtered by their own atheist government. Stalin, Mao, pol pot and hitler. All of them hated religion. People who don’t exist can’t harm me but people who are at the helm of a state and are worshiped as a god can.

  22. This is always a fun subject to discuss, but I don't see the relevance of spending too much time discussing a fairy tale. All of the religious books or tales are fantasy anyway and not to be taken seriously in any way.

  23. As much as I recognise you havinf resentment towards religion, evennif itbis Christianity in particular.
    It does not make you a kinder soul for insulting a religion like that.
    Especially lacking evidence to support your arguments.
    Please do not assume I am biased or ignorant towards those against a religion, I am interested to hear what others think, though do nt take kindly towards those looking to dish out insults rather stick to facts.

    I do hope you find happiness and peace in you life. All I ask is not to insult religion. All actions have an influence and consequence.

  24. Well Christianity looks fck up if you understand it literally. But it looks understandably as reflection of human nature. Christianity not created itself, people did it, people as a whole. And tif this religion looks fck up. That is becose people are fck up. And becose people are products of lot of years of evolution, i dont think you can fix them just so easy, therefore you cannot fix religion so easy. And you connot live without it to. Soviets try that. Kinda…

  25. This video is chock-full or errors and misunderstandings of the book of Genesis and Christianity. You wouldn't learn about physics from a 5-year-old, so why would you learn about Christianity from someone who knows almost nothing about Christianity? There are plenty of commentaries on Genesis written by scholars who have decades of biblical study.

  26. What I've learned from reading the bible is the best case scenario the god people pray to is actually satan

  27. Religion is a monster but sadly some people truly need it to be good people, I had a co worker tell me once that he doesnt know what he would do if he didnt think he was going to hell for doing bad things

  28. You're reading and describing genesis as though it's prescriptive, which it obviously can't be, rather than speculatively descriptive, as it obviously is..

  29. I find it interesting that the story of the garden of Eden might be a folk memory of being forced to change from a hunter gatherer lifestyle to a harder agricultural one. There are similar such stories from other cultures. It makes a lot of sense to me (although I don't k ow how strong the evidence is) but it shows all the stories were just a way of a confused and frightened species to understand their world and the changes they didn't understand or control.

  30. Man this is good! you are following the right path to eventually become a new Hitch… bloody good job mate

  31. The story of the Garden of Eden IS a metaphor. It's a metaphor that warns us of spiritual death if we aspire to be like god. 'Good and evil' meaning 'everything' suggests that what Adam and Eve did was elevate themselves to higher than their lowly station to closer to that of god's, which was entirely unacceptable to him. And while it isn't as silly as it's portrayed in Genesis, this is, to me, the most insidious message of Christianity: 'Know your place. Remain in the dark. Follow blindly.' The story explains away why we have relative free will and thinking brains and why this shouldn't be the case, which is worse than blaming children for a mistake the parent wanted them to make.
    The idea of original sin makes me so uncomfortable, watching all these Christians talk about how horrific, filthy and worthless they are inside with a huge smile, thanking god for the opportunity to be saved even though they don't deserve it, apparently forgetting that it was god's plan all along while also remembering that fact, but only sometimes…

  32. Researchers should try to implement bible ethics into AI. It’s the only airtight set of moral principles that would suit our super technologic future

  33. Sir, you lack modesty! You shame your family and community with your vulgar appearance. Please refrain from appearing on-camera until your hair has grown to appropriate length.

  34. @7:40 "just read this book and believe it all"
    I counter your insanity with my own, good sir!
    "Read these tea leaves…..AND BELIEVE IN ALL"

  35. The parody falls apart when it strangely conflates the woman of the Eden story with the Serpent, As well as giving an illusion of misogyny, it eliminates the central part of the story, which is that the Serpent (not Eve) presented Adam and Eve with the choice -to trust God or follow his advice and rebel against him. They were not children, but thinking adults, and did not make their decision accidentally. That same choice faces us today, and the default response of us all is to follow the advice of the Serpent (this is the essence of "original sin"). We naturally welcome anything that reinforces the superiority of this default position, which is why your parody will chime with and win the applause of most of this channel's subscribers. The appeal of the parody is, presumably deliberately, enhanced by using an outdated version of the Bible which is rarely used these days, and the clips of speakers with American accents. The parody continues to veer from the Biblical story in suggesting that God apologised for his actions and ignores the crucial point that the crucifixion was not imposed on Jesus, but took place with his full cooperation. It could also be added that your medieval description of Hell is your invention and not found in the Bible.
    I don't wish to offend (I have appreciated and valued your posts in the past) but here you seem to confusing puerile mockery with rational discourse.
    Fortunately you redeemed the post by including the clip from Christopher Hitchens. This is man who clearly and accurately understood Christianity and expressed simply and with clarity his reasons for rejecting it. I do not agree with his position (I personally think that idea scapegoating, and the offer of freedom and release that it offers, is a potentially world-changing concept and should be embraced by all). but at least he clearly knew what he was talking about.

  36. Imagine that I have to go to jail for the rest of my life because my mother molested the president.

  37. Dude, too much religion! we all already know is a pile of nonsense. I love when you make those philosophy videos!

  38. That Letters from the Earth quote is similar what I have asked Christians: explain to me the consequences of eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil without using the words "good", "bad", or "death", since Adam and Eve didn't have those concepts prior to eating the apple.

  39. The original Jewish version (and even the later Islamic revision) make sense in a form. God was all powerful, he was jealous, angry and capricious and the 18 other adjectives that Dawkins writes of him. Here he is acting perfectly rationally to character punishing an entire species for a fruit picking incident. Now of course the story is unscientific but perfectly logical on a bronze age mindset of a cruel world: "god is cruel, don't fuck with him".

    It's Christianity that tries to square a loving God with one who did all the Old Testament atrocities. It's impossible even with some of the greatest minds of the middle ages working on it.

    I have never understood why omnipotence and omnibenevolence have been put together. People who are powerful are not often good. Look at the world's most powerful man today, and tell me if Trump is a role model.

  40. Having incest is taught to be the original sin between Adam and his sister, Eve, based on the assumption in the teachings of creation science fiction that the gods said-“let Us make a man in Our own image”.

  41. Rest assured Stephen, I am certain that Hitchens would be quite proud of what you’re doing and would likely see it as a furtherance of his own work.

  42. Just when I told my friends that you are the most rational atheist you post this vid. I love you but, you got everything wrong.

  43. in Jesus's case of sacrifice, it just a simple story of imperfect human can survive and pass ill fate of the world on man, and for the human win, the world or god-self sacrifice nature order for humans. the promise of the world or gods always take care of human, when they are nonhuman god, but human or better human intelligence, and human god Jesus love human because of he human. and because Christian in mono thesis god so the story is all about the self of God and human, the mono thesis of god is good and stronger than nature evil, is the main theory, and belief and faith. also, the confusion of a god not gods of choice and battle between good and evil. and good way win.

  44. 6:22 Well, I do agree with god that he fucked up with that one. Good thing it's moral to blame the guy for god's mistakes. What authority would there be left for sadists if there's no god, the great and perfect example? Which reminds me, aren't there a couple rapists and murderers we should pardon unless we ourselves have never sinned?

  45. I don’t understand why God would do this at all. If he’s an all knowing and loving God why did he place the tree with its forbidden fruit in the first place? Why not decide not to plant the tree. Why would he ruthlessly punish over disobeying him once on top of the fact that he lied about what would happen if they ate the fruit in the first place and allowing the servant in the garden too! He’s supposed to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent so he knew before hand exactly what was going to happen in the first place, allowed it to happen, and as a result of this has failed to save humanity he supposedly loves so much. God shouldn’t be sending us to hell, he should be the one in hell for commuting various sins such as outright lying to humanity, genocide, racism, homophobia exc. It’s not our fault he fucked up even if the Bible stories were true, which they aren’t. I hate the guilt & shame religion makes me feel…

  46. What's a simile? I seem to have forgotten all of the literary tropes, and can't seem to understand the knowledge of good or evil.

  47. I had someone tell me that humans weren't animals, because animals don't talk. When I asked him about the animals that talked in the bible, he said that God made them talk. When I asked him why did God make the snake talk for Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit he stopped responding.

  48. The story of Genesis is a Red Pill and also an inquiry. Why are we born, why do we die and why do these things bother us and not the other living beings in our experience? Why do we love or hate the things we do and what are our natural tendencies and how do we allow for them? What words do we use to talk about them and what images to give them form?:

  49. Adam and Eve in the Garden were innocent but were of flawed character and unaware of it. After they ate of the tree of knowledge they became self aware and this was made manifest not only in their shame, but in their eviction from the Garden. This is the Fall and the origin of original sin, but in a way this is actually a blessing, not a curse. The Church represents the Fall as a curse because truth doesn't make people happy and they want their lies and excuses instead……

    The rest of Genesis is an extended temper tantrum as God doesn't come down and infantilise the people of the world. It happens again in the New Testament when Jesus doesn't do a Fixit for His chosen people and so they crucify Him……..

  50. One should listen to what they believe so you can challenge it, but it's difficult to listen to such madness anymore. Them talking with such certainty about Adam is like someone screaming right next to my ear.

  51. Well, if I've been given such a vivid example when I was a boy in a Sunday school, I wouldn't have stayed with Christianity for long. It's even scary how obvious this is: show such father-children relations scenario to any mentally healthy person from any civilized culture, and he'll claim it's immoral! How did I go along with 'they've failed a test of faith' kind of explanation and that it should inspire us to believe unquestionably?

  52. In true christian fashion, the only thing Adam and Eve acquired from eating from the forbidden tree is shame for their on bodies and hangups about sex.

  53. Original Sin Doctrine, now thrown out by the Catholic Church but adopted by SJWs of all manner from feminism's "toxic masculinity" on.

  54. I've never really brought into the narrative that Eve was punished as misogyny because the man and the serpent were each punished. They were ALL punished. The Garden of Eden is immoral in many ways but it is NOT an example of misogyny. Can we be done with this bit old worn out bit of feminism virtue signalling now?

  55. Very rational, and I think most of us could come to similar conclusions on the level you are working on here, but we think you miss the point about religions & the irrational……..And perhaps even your self-touted intellectual sobriety comes into question when finally you claim "Now here is the truth….." like any southern evangelistic snake-oil merchant would do. There are many truths in the world……

  56. Why, with foreknowledge, would a divine entity place the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden, in the first place? An action that leads to original sin and the need for substitutionary ransom.

  57. I wonder what the rules are in heaven? Is the citizenry meant be sinless for eternity? Appears a tough call.

  58. Excellent work, well thought out and equally well presented. A simple, direct and scathing summation of the inherently evil and reprehensible christian construct of 'original sin' as well as the abominable character of this mythical 'god creature' they pretend is 'loving' when everything written about it demonstrates the exact opposite.

  59. Yes it is grotesque indeed…they act as tho they would glorify god seeing their loved ones tormented in hell yet they wouldnt be able to stand the sight of those same loved ones tormented in their sight today…

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