Science in Islam, Part 5: Mongol destruction


100 comments

  1. GOD DAMN MONGORIANS!

    Also, you should have stated why Genghis Khan invaded the Khwarazmian empire: because the Khwarazmian emperor murdered a bunch of Mongol merchants and then insulted the Khan. Big mistake.

  2. May not relate to this channels content but there is this YouTube channel which is all about story telling from across the world, which I like to recommend. Go seek "Rare Earth".

  3. Next Caspian Report video to be about how Jerusalem is Israel’s new capital? Also, predictions for what this could mean would be nice too.

  4. Very interesting and thought provoking video. The Islamic world once had a Golden Age of prosperity and science, but it did not last long and it seems to have not been able to scientifically adapt to the new age. The only Muslim country that has a significant and competitive high technology industrial sector is Turkey.
    The USSR was once a technological powerhouse, nowadays China is catching up and becoming one.
    Countries such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Iran have vast populations yet their scientific output is not constant and not as significant as it should be.
    Interestingly Pakistan and India, despite being poorer than Arab countries, seem to do better in science?

  5. In only fifty years South Korea rose from the ashes like a phoenix to become one of the earths most advanced nations. Look at Turkey until recently, they did fairly well to a certain extent. The difference between the developed world and between primitives is the way how they treat women and minorities, how they handle free trade, the school and the social system. Many factors contribute to a well doing nation. The explanations by these great video series aren't enough to fully answer the question why islamic nations do so badly in comparison.

  6. Science not necessarily opposed Religion
    Issac Newton is one of the most briliant and respected scientist, but he also very Religius (borderline cult) man
    Newton's published books on physics contain no religious arguments for his scientific conclusions

    as Thomas Aquinas said, there was truths of reason and truths of faith.

  7. Science is still weak in Islamic world today, because unlike many other ancient civilization of the past like China/Japan/Korea that faced massive destruction during WW2, the Islamic world suffered little so they have little incentive for change. Also Very soon afterwards oil was discovered, this gives the Islamic world even less incentive for change, because they can literally trade everything they want from earth itself.

    China/Japan/Korea on the other hand, didn't have that much natural resources, so they have to focus on its own people and science for development.

  8. It seems to me that the primary causes of the decline were Asha’ri fundamentalists theology, and the impoverishment caused by the collapse of the Silk Road. And the Mongol destruction just did damage that couldn’t be repaired due to the decline caused by the previous two factors.

  9. Islamic influence is strong still in western cultures in scientific arena. It's sad other need to fall and turn inwards for other to gain it. Scientific inventions would be 2000 years ahead without destroying all knowledge by conquerors and closed mindedness. Think what the world would be today. What is it that people are so afraid to advance?

  10. An indepth and interesting series. I really enjoyed learning about islam from a different perspective. Keep it up mate.

  11. The amount of hate in the comments. Damn. I didn't know so many bigots were interested in a history youtube channel. They are blinded with hate so much that they can't even imagine that muslims contributed to science and technology. They try to come up with stories and theories like mosques being a Byzantine invention and muslims stealing technology and claiming it as theirs. Lmao. Anything that doesn't confirm their bias is automatically "fake news".

    That one person saying the Mongols should have "finished the job" reminds me of what white supremacists say about Hitler and Jews.

    You guys need to find a hobby. Don't waste your life being genocidal maniacs and racists on YouTube videos.

  12. Alot of roman and greek texts survived not only because of Arabs but also because of being stored in Byzantium. Codex Justinianus, which forms the basis of most roman civil law in the world is a good example.

  13. this is a very nice video, its very nice. It is very similar to what had happened to Europe. But ive noticed that many people mistake the byzantine empire as the Roman empire. It was not Roman. The Roman empire didnt embrace christianity until 100 years prior to the fall of rome in 476 AD. by then it was already suffering from the huns forcing the Germanic tribes to migrate into Roman territory. The Romans were politically unstable and was filled with corruption and in constant threat fighting the barbarian incursions. Infact Rome flourished after christianity was adopted, removing many of the horrific and barbaric methods of execution, such Crucifixion etc. just one of the many examples. All this was done under the first Christian emperor, Constantine, who managed to stabilise Rome and fight off the Barbarians. However, not everyone in the senate were christians and still believed in their old pagan gods, and when constantine died, many of his successors would try to undo what he had done and purge the bureaucracy destabilising everything. It fell due to that reason, and for that reason it couldnt progress in science or anything else in general. The Byzantine empire, however, was mainly greek and no one but themselves recognised them as the successor to the Romans, which irritated them and so they attempted to retake Rome to gain legitimacy under Justinian II, but failed due to Empire's size being too big to protect and maintain. From then on, the barbarians throughout Europe, burned roman cities to the ground and destroyed their books and libraries, the roman emperors after constantine were pagans and didnt want the barbarians to have access to this information so some were burned by the romans themselves. But many were preserved and when the barbarian kingdoms adopted christianity, It resulted with a mini renaissance, the visigothic embracement of roman culture and its knowledge, and Charlemagne's revival of education. Ofc they were lacking in knowledge as most of the roman books were burnt, and the only other great library that remained, the great library of Alexander fell into muslim hands. But the christians were too busy fighting the pagans in the east and north and other rival kingdoms as many kings died and their children would fight over who the true successor was regardless of what the king had said, and also muslim invaders through iberia and southern italy. There was no time to learn and flourish until stability returned to Europe, and the byzantines, having not fallen and still held the roman and greek knowledge of antiquity, were constantly losing lands to the east and west, to muslims and pagans, the byzantines had it worse to be fair. It is almost like what happened to the muslim world except reversed to be in Europe, its sad how we do this to ourselves and how flourishing empires fall. I really loved this series, in the future this timeline of history throughout the world would be seen as antiquity.

  14. great work! really appreciate your reports.
    that said it sounded at the end of this video as if faith and science are contradictory. in Quranic Arabic because of the way Arabic is built, there isn't one word for science. Belief on the other hand is generally translated as "iman" where in fact it is always associated with the word "bi" , meaning " a secured and trusted way in obtaining .. from .. ".
    Trust is more of a probabilistic approach, and depends heavily on one's perspectives and perception.

  15. Kwarezmians would have had composite bows too, since their environment accounted for it. Also composite bows existed since 1200bc. Mongols won primarily due to their unique logistics and tactics.

  16. Muslims claim science occurred because of islam. Meanwhile, the empire was the most massive the world had seen up to that point, consolidating large population centers. No, no, no, the latter had nothing to do with growth in science. It was all the religion, right?

  17. The Muslim Golden Age was near totally dependent upon science, technology, and innovation gained out Muslim invasion and conquering of lands, not through Muslim generation.

  18. butthurt western whiteys are finally learning how great Islam brought science to western civilization during times where whitey were fighting over stupid christian feuds.

  19. I think … Science was defeated by State Religion (Ego driven Religious teaching) … cos Faith is de fundamental driving force behind Science … and surprisingly … Religion too …

  20. Strange that most of the Arabic scientists were apostates and most were killed or tortured. Now they are revered to further the faith! Strange!

  21. well, they(khwarezmian) asked for a war. so how can Muslims blame Mongols for their acts?

    also Islamic rulers are known for the destruction of ancient Indian universities of nalanda and taxila. they plundered and razed many Indian cities and temples which had valuable texts and scripts. so they got the same medicine from Mongols, as simple as that. you cannot do evil deeds and expect only good in return.

  22. @CaspianReport
    You have researched and produced your series very well, I think overall it was really nice a good job on focusing on the historic accounts that people neglect today.
    Although I don't think you have approached the subject appropriately, there is a Eurocentric narrative you are following that doesn't encompass Islam.

    Essentially the point I will make in the following paragraphs is that Islam did not have a secular worldview, which separated the worldly affairs and the spiritual life and what Muslims call "the hereafter". Meaning that according to Islam the Creator addressed how progress and life is lived in this world in order to attain the next life. So according to Islam, if anything went wrong it was in the understanding (or misunderstanding) of the Muslims in how the Creator has addressed this world. And it certainly wasn't a case of what transpired with Christianity and the reformation.

    So Firstly Islam is not faith based as advocated by the Muslims, Proof of Creator is a rational discussion that Islam mandates on everyone, and Proof of Islam is also a rational one. The Qur'anic miracle and its scientific knowledge that Islam repeatedly mentions is something Muslims understand has come from no one but the Creator. And due to these teachings Muslims were able to continue with scientific process which is simply utilisation of the analytical faculty which Islam had always called towards. This is what allowed for the Islamic civilisation to flourish to begin with.
    Secondly, both mu'tazila and ash'ari, as well as other theological lines of thought had these mentioned aspects imbibed i.e. the rational thought process. Though the Mu'tazila emerged as a result of Muslim interactions with greek philosophy and in doing so adopted their methods to answer and protect Islam from questions that Muslims did not normally engage in e.g. who creates man's actions? Hence why Khaleefah Mamun adopted the thinking. Imam Ibn Hanbal was not a literalist, he was in strict opposition to taking the mind where it should not go, and did not advocate carte blanc throw away rational thinking. The asha'ira were also not anti-rationalist, they tried to reconcile and balance. As you can see these threads came about due to discussions surrounding the role of the mind and where it starts/ends. So this uncertainty of role of mind hindered progress only slightly, but as you rightly stated Baghdad had huge libraries that were lost.
    Thirdly, the decline that you mentioned was due to the misapplication and neglect of the scientific discourse that Islam advocated. and actually "closing the doors to Ijtihad". If you research this you will find that development and application of the Arabic language to new scenarios stopped happening, and so slowly slowly the Muslim world became apprehensive towards new innovations and change. Therefore what happened in the 19th Century was adoption of French codes in the Shari'ah courts, this was an example of a result when the Muslims abandoned the method of churning out new rulings for new things (Ijtihad).

    So in summary, Islam has addressed how each faculty of the human works together to fulfil the purpose in life that the Creator has ordained. According to the Muslims, there is no limitation coming from Islam stopping Muslims. Rather it is the application by the people.

    I hope you read this Shirvan 🙂
    sağol

  23. Not sure why you include some ancient Muslim writer's faulty conclusions about science's decline in Europe. Economic collapse due to Islamic invasions seems to be the real reason

  24. Mongol invasion of Korea also stopped Korea's scientific development but it didn't stopped Korea restarting their scientific development in 15th century and now. I think it's extremist of Muslim fundamentalists stopped Muslim world's scientific development.

  25. It wasn't Chinese engineers that Mongol hired, they hired Khitan and Jurchen engineers, I'm surprised that you don't know much about East asian history.

  26. People talk of the need of Islam to undergo a reformation as Christianity did….

    Seems like Islam had its reformation after destruction by the Mongols… it was just the opposite kind of reformation from what Christians experienced.

  27. This is why i subscribed to your channel some years back, such good content that's educational & sparks interest into the subject matter!
    Al-Masudi's quote at the end struck a chord with me, if he only knew that that same plague of irrationalism would befall all that him & his peers accomplished during that era, so sad!

  28. @CaspianReport: Hey Shirvan! Thank you for the content. I wonder if you can give me a link to the song you used in this video. I tried to find this performance in youtube, but I couldn’t find it. Thank you.

  29. @CaspianReport
    It's laughable to have Islam and Science in the same sentence especially if you read the Quran. For example, the Quran indicates that the Sun settles on earth in a muddy pool of water (Quran 18:86). The "Islamic Golden Age" is basically Muslims stealing what was already discovered and/or created by other races (non-Muslims) in that region after being conquered by Muslims.

  30. Many don't even knew that Mongol never fought a war that cannot win .. they had spies and Mongol created chaos before they attacked they enemy .

  31. What you said in the end really confused me. Christianity affected in the death of science? The end of west Rome was affected by many factors but religion was last of them. Just look at the Easter Roman Empire and the answer is clear. Science and culture flourished there and it was Christian. Also there were many great Christian Philosophers after the fell of West Rome for example Saint Augustin.

  32. we muslims today moved away from the path of truth and peace. We are blinded by the hatred of different ideas, thinking of modern era. Only if we keep learning, evolve and contribute positively to the world; we can be respected.

  33. Isalmic unity and islamic identity and islamic knowledge. it can never happen…arab are stuborn and fat belly people….we muslim dislike them . They destroyed everything.learn from us living in non muslim lands .we have preserved for more knowledge then arab ever would.it was arabs job but we are doing it as u arabs are busy making ur bellies more bigger more fat.

  34. Why muslim countries today are not as powerful and advanced as their ancestors. this is because they did not realize that their belief has been changed and controlled by the corrupted royal family of Saudi Arabia. The Sunni descendant are the followers of the power and wealth (the royal families).
    The western countries get themselves rid of the dark ages through Renaissance, a total cultural – belief – society reformation.
    Thus freed the science from the religious influence. so that we can see European entered the first industrial revolution.

    Muslim states in the middle east are mostly still blindly follow the Saudi Arabia leadership. There was once the Muslim countries almost archieved their own version of renaissance, the Nasserism. That was a good attempt to improve the society through mind revolution . Unfortunately the revolution was demolished by the Wahabi and Saudi's corrupted power. These corrupted royal families fear that the Nasserism would tear apart their throne, and giving people of the middle east a target to take a leap into modern civilization. So These wahabist cooperated with the Israelis, funded and destroyed anyone movements that related to nasserism.

    So until today, we can see the muslim states today in middle east, mostly still are so backward and obey their misleading religion, instead of believing in modern science.

    The idea of wahabism is to use the extreme way to rule, to make the majority fool and so they can stay in ruling class forever. enjoying the wealth and power generations by generations. For the israelis, the best way to keep themselves safe, is actually working together with the corrupted Saudi family and the wahabism. Only when the arabs continuosly putting their own mind in the jail of out of date misleading fake teaching of Islam. then these islamic countries wont rise and challenge israel. How smart it is.
    I know these words could hurt the sincere muslim especially those who never doubt the Saudi as if they are their caliphate. but the fact is fact. if you dont want to think, you muslim world will never rise. and will always bow to the West, forever.
    in the ancient time, islam are so open minded to accept the new idea and knowledge to improve themselves,
    nowadays, islam are so narrow minded and refused to change, if you still dont see that your religion has been infiltrated and controlled by the corrupted power, i pity you. keep praying, but Allah cant help you if you dont help yourself, think!

  35. The Quran and Islam are not science, they are superstition.
    Statements taken from the Quran concerning the physical nature of humanity, the world and the universe are almost invariably scientific absurdities reflecting primitive beliefs and superstitions current at the time of 'Muhammad' and often contradicted by other passages from the Quran.
    Recent attempts to claim "science" in the Quran are invariably bogus involving eisegesis (as opposed to exegisis) – an erroneous practice very common in the false claims of Islamic apologists.

  36. Actually. .the demise of Islamic golden age came from within. When a Democratic system as Khilafa Rashida was removed.
    The Umayyad and Abbasid kingdoms were only profiting of what was achieved during The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) & Rashidun Era .

  37. Lot of distortions and historical inaccuracies are in your video. For instance, Khwarzem Shah had no grand strategy of luring Mongols. It was his disdain for a small barbarian cheftian, which he thought Genghis Khan to be. Further, Hulagu and Caliph shared a number of letters. They are on record. You account of the seige of Bhagdad is incorrect.

  38. The day Abu Bakr and Umar took over the khalapha from the right man call Ali the one that the prophet of Islam introduced before is death they destroyed the unity there and then for the sake of power not knowing the inner meaning of breaking their prophet's covenant and since then muslims they foght themselves and wasting time for so long which leaded them to lose so much more and more .
    Now at the end maybe sunni islam finally undersand what really happened . I doubt though . Though i hope .

  39. what did the turks that was ruling arab countries for 500 years .. what science it brough what library it built .. or just taking our gold and puting us in siege !

  40. Fascinating, thank you and Salaam from Australia.

    As our use of science, technology, rationalism and materialism now threaten to destroy the world in may ways, at least on the ecological level, and is helping us all degenerate as cultures and societies and happy people on the more personal level, one is left to wonder if Al Ghazali maybe had a point, even if his Platonism did spell the end of the Islamic Golden Age.

  41. scientific lies , or the science of lies. Everything is inverted as usual under the darkness of moongod of death!

  42. Advances in science of Muslim or non Muslim nations will be to the benefit of us all. We, humans, face same challenges such as cancer, Alzheimer’s, climate change and more. We should always remember that in the end we are all members of the same species, same civilization.

  43. Science is creativity..Creativity is like pregnancy..It happens …And it goes…Science has happened in every civilization.. Mesopotamia..Greek..Roman..Persian..Indian..Chinese..Babylonian..Egyptian..Islamic science happened when they settled instead of conquering lands…But it collapsed when they were conquered..

  44. Once again. The mamluks were a slave once sold by the mongols, their own ex slave defeated them at the battle of ain jalut, by God's will, mongol khan passed away before the battle. Mongols never returned to these lands to counter attacks,

    then began the ottomans, the future conqueror who ended byzantines and Christian in Constantinople, making islamic country great again

  45. Shirvan, I am sorry. “Islam“ has been bad for the world. The Arabs and the Persians, the Turks and Egyptians are great peoples. Islam wasted their vigor and has infused millions with hatred and blind radicalism. Sure, some progress was made during Islamic times. But, that was NOT Islamic progress. The Prophet Md. (PUBH— I don’t want some crazy immam to ask that I be killed) was a leader of people. He was also a Muslim. Leaders as great as him are unique in history. BUT there have been others, among native Americans and Armenians and the Masai and the Budol. Great leaders don’t have to father religions. And they don’t have to be defended as “perfect”. Nor should Md.

    Humanity benefits from lawgivers. We all owe respects to the great Arabic Rusool.

    Islam’s failings shouldn’t attach to the great Md. (PUBH). Limited to his time, and viewed pragmatically, the scion of Quereish is brilliant. A military leader, unified of tribes, and lawgiver.

    Islam is not however his greatest donative. Islam isn’t great. At its best, it is a base doctrine.

  46. I wonder why Shirvan did not mention that when the Arabs conquered Iran they burnt all the Sasanid libraries and destroyed Jondishapour university but when it came to Mongols he did mention it. A bit dishonest.

  47. One question:
    If Mongols were smart enough to capture and utilize Chinese technologies and their engineers, why did they destroy the books, literature and libraries of Muslims and thus wasting that important treasure of knowledge?

  48. The fall of Romans was due to political adversary among Romans.
    The Victory of Mongols was due to unity among Mongols.
    The decline of Muslim rule was due to lack of unity among Muslims.

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