Episode #2: The Dangers of Believing in a Prosperity Gospel

hello and welcome to philosophies of friends the open discussion podcasts where we discuss religious views ideas and freedom of spirituality my name is Roy Ellis I'm Melissa Ellis and I am Michael Hanson and today we are discussing on the dangers of believing in a prosperity gospel yeah we're really excited about this this is definitely something you want to chat about and essentially for those of you who are those of you who are unfamiliar with this idea of a prosperity gospel it's a common thread of belief of common theology among many Christian religions especially Christian religions that were founded in America this belief that if a person is faithful he or she should see tangible blessings in terms of financial emotional or physical game like that if you are faithful and you are righteous and you do what God tells you to that he then in turn lets blesses you with some things that the outside world can see like a healthy body and finances and a well-off life and you know all these things so we want to talk about experiences we've had negative experiences we've had because of this belief and a prosperity gospel and we also want to talk about just why you can get too toxic in general and why we think it needs to be addressed and where it started and all that good stuff okay so who would like to know thank you a lot semadar by the way for explaining that for explaining that to the people all right so Melissa Ellis I'm sure you have a lot to say about that I have so many feelings about this particular topic I'm sure you do we all do like this does anyone just like sense like almost the hypocrisy of believing critical and it's so it's so hypocritical it's so entitled and that's understood it's so conceited to think that like you get a boss God around about what how he gets to bless you it's just awful yeah and in fact like you know with with that comment about and Melissa I know we're gonna get to you but like that comment about bossing God around when I was doing my research I went to this great website called the gospel coalition org and they have an article about the issues with the prosperity gospel and they had an in in the middle of the article they had this list that talked about you know five specific issues with the prosperity gospel and the fifth one was thinking that your prayers could boss exactly that whole thing about like if I pray hard enough and I'm righteous enough God will bless me in the way that I want him to or because I checked off this box that my life is supposed to look a certain way anyway back to you Melissa I know that you've had hella experiences with this so take it away no you're totally fine and actually Michael royal and I watched the gospel coalition stuff on YouTube yeah about the prosperity gospel so yeah well there you go yeah so we watched a video discussing those five reasons why it's toxic and all that but oh my gosh there's just so much that I want to say about this because it truly truly is so toxic to believe this way so basically believing that God's blessings are contingent upon your obedience and your righteousness yep and that if you want good things to happen in your life then you need to be perfectly faithful and you need to be perfectly righteous so then you start believing that if you aren't getting all the blessings that you want that you think are right for you then you must be a sinner you must be doing something wrong God must be trying to send you a message or punish you in some way so I feel like one classic thing sorry one classic thing that we hear about is when people are like okay say you get cancer for example and I've heard people who within the LDS Church but they're like oh so-and-so got cancer and it's because God needed God had a calling for them at home God needed them here at home they were so righteous that God just couldn't let them be on the person so God gave them a killing disease to put them in misery to send them home because they're so but then on the flip side you hear I'm sorry Savannah but on the flip side then you hear people being like oh did you hear that so-and-so got cancer yeah it's because she was unfaithful to her husband and so God is punishing her for her adultery or whatever and it go ahead I don't understand why humans are so desperate to find a wife for everything like I know I know right I do it too but it's always like we have to find the cause for the effect like she got cancer there has to be reason like we have to try and freaking rack our brains to find it like why do we why are we so obsessed with that like finding the cause to every effect do you know I think it just builds our like inner confidence in ourselves like you know we understand why something happens that will know how to come I know we feel uncomfortable or like oh my gosh I figured it out like I know the secret to life no you don't know anything like that's not how life works and we're gonna probably talk over each other a few times sorry melis I keep going I just realize like for people that get cancer like that's just these cancer who could I get cancer and that have been because the best people in the world get cancer the worst people in the world get cancer and yeah mm-hmm and it's crazy because I really just realized it really like messes them up in their head especially the people that have been so holy and just great people and they're just think damn what did I do and they start just racking their brain for like 30 years like the last 30 like what did I do yeah I wouldn't know you didn't do nothing but life happened that's what happened oh I should definitely keep this myself because like you know maybe well just because like I have that that leads into another question that maybe for a whole another podcast but I think it would be an interesting thing to discuss a little later of course about like how involved do we think God is in our lives like to a tee is he like nitpicky like like nitpicky detail-oriented overseer or is he more general overseer and let's life happen you know what I mean like I think we can talk about that Royals absolutely like right like sometimes crap just happened watch yourself and people just try to explain it away so quickly yeah yeah absolutely and um but you know Michael my my answer kind of has to do with the question that you asked and when I was just leaving the LDS Church I was flying I can't remember somewhere and there was an older gentleman who was seated on the plane next to me and he just started chit-chatting with me and um I was sitting there wearing a tank top and he asked me if I you know knew anything about the LDS Church was it yeah I grew up Mormon and he was like oh so you're not Mormon anymore I mean obviously because I'm wearing this tank top right so clearly I'm not Mormon anymore but um but he was actually really nice and we got Sean the non-believer I know right well no he wasn't he wasn't like that at all he was more curious than accusatory and so um I felt like he totally just wanted to know my story and he wanted to know why I had chosen to leave and not because he was trying to save me but just because oh that's interesting tell me more and as we were talking about it I just I just expressed that I'm so frustrated with how I felt like I didn't have any agency within the LDS Church and that might be a discussion for another episode as well but they there's this need for God to be in total control and so basically expressing my frustrations with this prosperity gospel concept and his response was he said imagine that we were all in the premortal existence so before we came to this earth and God gathered around all his spirit children and he was like listen I have this plan and I want to send you to earth but I'm gonna send you there you're gonna have a body we're not gonna see each other and I'm not really gonna have any control over what happens to you so it's kind of like a computer program where when I hit the download button like it's just gonna happen and that's the way it's gonna be so I can't control whether or not somebody is going to choose to hurt you and I can't control whether or not somebody is gonna choose to hurt your family so in this gentleman's example his daughter had been raped when she was three years old and so which is horrible right but he he said that his way of not being angry with God was recognizing that God doesn't have his hand in the pot that much like he sent us here to make our decisions he wants to offer all of us Grace and he wants to bless all of his children he loves all of his children but he can't control the bad things that do or don't happen to us as a result of other people because he's not gonna take away anybody's agency so that was really comforting to me and I started thinking more about it and I was like okay well I can push this even further because not only did God you know create all his children but he also created all of the you know the science in the universe and all the scientific laws that we live by and that we can't help but live by and so what you know back to the cancer example like he gave us our bodies and then based on our environment or the substances we put in them or whatever or just natural biology our cells are gonna change they're gonna develop there and mutate and so he doesn't give us cancer or blindness or you know poley or whatever it is it's just that he gave us these bodies that we're gonna do their thing just like he sent us as people here to do our thing and the result isn't his um isn't his choice it's up to you no it's up to science it's up to other people's decisions it's you know we can make yeah it's up to life like we can make decisions that bring consequences that will be positive or negative but that's not God trying to teach you a lesson that's not God telling you oh well you weren't righteously not so I'm gonna take this away from you or I'm gonna cause somebody you love to enjoy this horrible experience it's just part of being here in part of life unfortunately he's there for us so we can turn to him and he can comfort us and he can support us and put people in our lives to some help support us but he's not trying to give us or take away anything so now that that brings up an interesting question because I think another reason you know through our research we know people definitely distorted interpretations of the gospel and that's what you know birth the prosperity gospel mentality but like we can't deny that in the scriptures both the Book of Mormon and the Bible and other other sources they do talk about how doing the works of righteousness you know leads to prosperity now like I don't know if we want to get into it but I think it may be it may be good to maybe understand a little bit about what does the Lord mean by that if not by instant riches than what we believe like this is just the Vanna dr. and really I believe that it means like character like you should want to do right things because you love God and because you're hoping that it makes you a better person not because like I paid tithing or like like Gina like we Michael and I went to New Mexico and we did a service project in my aunt after it finished made the comment like well good now we're gonna be blessed and like that was her only like comment about the whole thing it was like why can't you mom do good to be good you know I mean I think that that's why and that's why I admire atheists so much honestly because when you meet an atheist who does something kind they're not doing it because they're expecting to be blessed by a God upstairs they're doing it just because like that's the good thing to do you know what I mean hmm and I think that like we can't believe that like our righteousness automatically equals blessings like and I know that there's Mormon and Christian doctrine that would argue with me but like I can't believe those like every time I do something right I'm entitled to a blessing because that leads me to believe that my God is at the service of humanity which I just can't believe you yeah I totally agree with that and I mean there are like you said there are a couple of scriptures and things that would lead us to believe that if we're obedient that we have physical blessings in store so for example in the book of Malachi this is a pretty common scripture of Malachi 3:10 which discusses tithing and it says bring the whole tithe into the storehouse that there may be food in my house test me and this says the Lord Almighty and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it so what one thing that I saw a lot in the LDS Church is that people would talk about tithing and they would say well I was you know I pay my tithing and so God blessed me by you know one day on my door somebody left you know two thousand dollars or one day magically there was just more money in my bank account and I know it's because I paid my tithing and so it gives you this idea that you know like you said Savannah that your righteousness dictates how God acts and we have no power over God whatsoever but then also it leaves this idea that like even if you are doing what you're supposed to say you're paying your full ten percent of tithing that you're totally you know religious about it and you're you're not waking up to money on your doorstep or to you know food on your doorstep or whatever it is you still get fired from your job and so then you begin wondering well what's wrong with me what else am I doing wrong then because I'm I'm paying my tithing and God said that he would open the floodgates of heaven and there would be so many blessings that I can't store them and everybody talks about tithing blessings being you know monetary blessings or like living expense blessings or those kinds of things and so it just leaves you feeling empty like we're never gonna be good enough and that's not what God wants for us at all yeah it's so crazy cuz we could we could talk forever on this topic like forever or it could be like a CH and like a short as this as his podcast to be yeah cuz it's so crazy because Tim like anybody that would debate with me about this like any Christian Catholic or Mormon mm-hmm that would debate with me about this it all comes down to like the simple question why do bad things happen to the greatest people amazing things happen to shitty people exactly in the conversation how to walk away he tells me over here I don't hear your response buddy how about that tell me that one of the worst things happen to some of the greatest awesome genuine loving people and some of the best things happened to the people that are the shittiest yeah hey you know ya know it's so tight and there's a lot of people who live a productive Christian life who believe that they're entitled to something that they deserve more than they've been given like I I'm like you suddenly so like I paid my tithing I've gone to church every week I've made sure that I'm nice to people and where's mine where's my mansion where's my perfect health where is my you know why is my daughter not speaking to me or whatever it might be like there's just like it's just there's always people trying to tally their good works and all the things that they didn't do or they did do and they're always looking for clues that will pronounce a verdict of like you are getting this sentence and you're getting messages and like it's just not like that like we don't we can tally up our goodness and say like bring it to the Lord and be like I did six good things today what's my blessing that I get a trade-in and it's just like it's such a toxic mindset for people who do like royal said hats who are lovely people who have very sorrow like sad things happen to them they look at their tally book and they said like Lord all I've done is serve you why and it's because we believe that like life is like life the quality of life is determined by how many good acts you can check off in a day and that's just mmm it's awful and not to mention like the pressure it puts on you as an individual like I feel like yeah you know I've definitely gone through this in my life and I know people have as well you know when you feel like you're not doing enough or if you make a mistake you are so like what's the word paranoid that God is about to take something from you right and not to mention it also sets like this expectation and the one the one problem with setting expectations is when you don't reach that expectation life is filled with so many disappointment and it's just like you have to accept the fact that life just isn't fair no matter how righteous you are if it was like if life was fair like royal said the good life would reward the good and life would always punish the bad and it's not like that like life is just isn't fair and no amount of righteousness or do goodie or checklist is going to change that like yes I do believe that like having a relationship with God and loving people and being kind to people makes your life better but it doesn't make it easier like all the time you don't I mean yeah absolutely I think it's just what you suck Savannah day we should be doing good things because we want to because we love God we love the people around us we want to have positive energy in our lives it shouldn't be like oh well maybe if I do this good thing but I'll have a bigger mansion than my neighbor when I go to heaven I mean that's just or I'll have a bigger mansion than my neighbor now like it's just saying absolutely.we it causes us to live this life of total comparison like we're constantly looking around at other people's blessings and thinking oh well am I not as good a person as they are and comparision just completely robs you of any kind of joy and how can you have a positive relationship with God if you don't have any joy in your life if you're constantly looking at somebody else's garden if you're like I don't know if you just feel like he's out to get you because you're not doing enough things right I grew up with a huge issue of feeling like if I don't do everything perfect then bad things are gonna happen to me so for example when I was 16 I was in a really bad car accident and I definitely should have either been severely injured or killed and afterward I had a family member say to me well the reason you didn't die was because you pay your tithing so yeah right no I have my seatbelt on but as a 16 year old girl I was like oh so I better always pay my tithing no matter what and I just became like freaked out about okay no wait how many cents did I make I've got a Greek count this I've gotta figure out I gotta make sure that I'm paying exactly ten percent every time I make any money yes and it made me absolutely crazy and then another example I wanted a motorcycle like my whole life and I finally bought one several years before I met royal and it was right when I was still in the church when I bought it but I was wanting to leave and I just had this feeling like okay as long as you are active in the church and as long as you're doing the things that you're supposed to do then you're gonna be safe you're gonna be safe only if you're righteous and only if you're obedient and so then as I started having my own journey and having these feelings like I don't know that this is the right Church for me I don't know that I agree with these things I want to start making my own decisions I want to dress differently I want to you know do whatever then I started feeling like you're gonna be hurt and you can't enjoy your motorcycle anymore and so I ended up just selling it like I stopped writing it I stopped enjoying it because then it was just this huge fear issue for me that even though I wanted to believe in something better than this prosperity gospel mindset like it was so drilled into my head that I finally just I couldn't take it anymore and I just sold the motorcycle which it's so sad like that's something I regret so much and I that might be small to a lot of people but doubt buying a motorcycle in the first place was one of my first huge steps in expressing who I really am and who I really want to be because I'd lived my whole life feeling like I wasn't good enough and I had to be this perfect righteous clone individual and so the motorcycle was something that brought me so much joy but because of this idea that if I wasn't living a perfect life I was not gonna be protected I I couldn't enjoy it I couldn't thrive with with that choice you would with your story melesa it makes me realize that if we trust too much in the prosperity gospel or the way God works I realized that it takes away our own confidence in our own capabilities right because like you as a motorcyclist you know with the more experience you know and this goes with anything in life the more experience you have doing something whether it's riding motorcycles or doing business or whatever you you are developing that talent and you should and you should be confident in your individual capability of what you've learned but the problem is is we get so caught up on on this idea that if we're not good enough or yo-yo god is going to hinder us and therefore I can't even trust my own ability as a motorcyclist I can't trust my own ability as an actor or a business person because if I'm not good enough then what's you know what you know there's there's nothing to you know why should I try because it's just gonna be taken away from me it completely stunts our own trust in our own abilities absolutely yeah I just think it's I think and also I think it like cuts out compassion for people who go through hard things because we like like we just like those who are not prosperous or newhart like you said at the beginning Lisa like those who are not perfectly healthy or don't have their lives together they must have clearly they have not followed the rules and they are not entitled to the blessings of God because of whatever and I think it just it creates a lack of compassion and in this um in this book that I'm I've read it's literally phenomenal it's this girl named Kate Fowler and she is a professor of theology at a college I mean it's actually it's like a Duke Christian university so it's Duke but it's like the Christian University of that anyway she wrote a book called everything happens for a reason and other lies that I've loved it it's so good it's cause it's a story about her struggle with stage-four cancer and the belief that all tragedies are a test of character like she refuses to believe that and everyone she said that she talked about like when she first got diagnosed like everyone came up to her and she felt like they were all scrambling for a reason to like tell her like oh the cancer happened because of this and she's like why do you feel so pressured into giving me a reason like oh it's probably because of this oh it's it you know what it's probably because of this or like they just everyone was so desperate to tell her a why and my favorite quote from that book it's beautiful it just says what if being the people of God didn't mean wealth and wholeness and prosperity what if it just meant that we are simply people with good news that good news is God is here we are loved and it is enough like we are so desperate and that's the end of the quote this is me talking now but like I I read that and it just hit me because like that's really what it gets down to is that Christians have to have some kind of and meet like I'm guilty of thinking stuff like this before too but like we are so desperate to have some kind of outer show and some wealth or prosperity or health or whatever form it might come in to validate our own righteousness but why can't it just be enough that like God loves us and he lives and that's it you know what I mean yeah I just feel like that's such a sad way to live whatever is going on in our lives it is dependent upon whether we're good enough or not and whatever is going on in the lives of other people same thing dependent on whether they're good enough or not and I feel like it totally negates well first of all there's kind of this idea that we all have a calling right that our life is kind of decided ahead of time that um you know you have your your personal path that you're supposed to take your sent here for a reason and you need to fulfill this calling and God has this expectation for you and so there's so much pressure to like be a good person so that you can fulfill your calling so that you can gain the blessings and if you if things don't turn out the way that you think they should um but then there's so much resentment and even if you're you're being a good person and you don't like what's happening to you then you start resenting God you start resenting your purpose you start questioning whether or not you believe did the right thing your whole life and it just it's just so sad that we can't just come to this earth and just learn and enjoy and do good because we want to and love God and serve our fellow man without doing it for the blessings like your on to your works act exactly just let it be enough like it just needs to be enough for you to love God let him love you love others and like learn and not feel so insanely and this goes back into what we talked about my last week about the shame that comes along with not being perfect and maybe that's a specific latter-day saint cleanser thing but I think a lot of Christian religions in fact most of the Articles that got comments from today we're from Catholic blogs and Catholic websites so I think a lot of religions can relate to this idea that you need to be one way to have your life be happy and that's just not true right right absolutely and I think that I mean I know that a big thing in the LDS Church is this idea that you have to work your way into heaven and I know they never say that but you know you can't just get into heaven by twerks but they also say faith without works is dead and so there's this idea that you have to be constantly earning that God's goodness and earning his blessings and earning your way to heaven but our pastors we go to a different Church now a little Christian Church that we love and our pastor one day he talked about the difference between justice mercy and grace because grace is something that I never heard about growing up it was like you do all the things you're supposed to do and then because you did all the things you're supposed to do God reluctantly allows you as an imperfect person to come into his presence which is such a sad way to live your life to think that you're working so hard to beg somebody to let you come and live with them absolutely but he our pastor described it as justice is like you are speeding so the policeman pulls you over and he gives you a take a okay you deserved that that's justice mercy is you're speeding the policeman pulls you over and he lets you off with a warning so definitely mercy you deserved the ticket but he just gave you a warning instead grace is your speeding cop pulls you over he doesn't give you a ticket and instead he takes you in washes your car for you he buys you breakfast he fills up your gas tank he gives you tickets to the Cowboys game because that's the ultimate right and then he sends you on your way so and when it when our pastor said this I was like what like is that really how God operates because I've lived my whole life thinking that God is all about justice and then Christ atoned for our sins so he reluctantly shows us mercy even though he knows that we deserve you know punishment and eternal damnation but through grace he's this God who he knows that were unworthy he knows that we mess up is he's like I don't care at all about that because I love you and I want you to be with me and I sent you to earth so you could have this beautiful experience and learn and progress and then come home and share that experience with me and tell me about it and and I just it made me feel so um I don't want to say resentful but just sad that I live my whole life thinking that God plays this mercy game only because he has to and that I have to do everything bright or else he's just up there with his scoreboard like waiting to take blessings away from me yeah and in order it's like it's so easy to take them away but in order for me to earn a blessing I have to work so hard and I have to really drag myself through the mud I've got a supper I've got to prove myself that maybe somehow I I could possibly be worthy of this one little thing and that's not how he operates at all like this prosperity gospel concept gives us this image of a God who doesn't just freely offer love and compassion yeah he's this God who sent us down here for failure and that's not that's not who he is that's not my god that's not who I choose to believe in yeah absolutely and you know I think you're the wonderful thing about the direction you're taking this in melesa is like you know just the opportunity that we have they now say just how wonderful God is because in the latter-day Saint Church we do have another book of Scripture called the Doctrine and Covenants and if you would like more details about that feel free to leave questions and comments in the question area but the doctrine covenants is basically a book of Revelation that the first Prophet Joseph Smith wrote down his revelations from God but one of the scriptures in there says that I God Who am anxious to bless you know unfortunately I do not have the reference off the top of my head but I do remember reading that and covenants and it is so comforting to know that in reality you know cuz I too grew up with this idea that God is just waiting to take things away and that's why it was so hard for me to even be happy when I want first place at a tournament or something but it's wonderful to know that in reality because of grace God is not disappointed that we have grace he is relieved that we have grace that we that he sent His only begotten Son to die for us so that we could have grace and that so that we he could bless us we're if you think about the role of a good dad towards his children any good dad is gonna want to bless his children not because they were good or bad but because he loves them so much and this prosperity gospel idea takes away the biggest attribute that God has for us and it's it's it's a terrible way to live thinking that you will never be good enough in God's eyes when in reality he loves us so much more then anyone we can comprehend on this earth and I think their number one thing I would say to people who struggle with this concept of I've been right just my whole life where are my blessings like the biggest thing is just that like you don't get to command like God around like that and you don't get a command life around like that like yes like why our lives are better when we're good people and we do our best to be kind to others but like I there's this quote by there's this um this guy who wrote an essay a couple of collections of essays about like this idea of like the American Dream and about manifest destiny and about all of these other things but it was just it's just something that says it's called the irony of American history and I love this quote and it reminds me a lot of a lot of things that like CS Lewis has written it says nothing that is worth doing can be achieved in our lifetime therefore we must be saved by her nothing which is true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any context of history therefore we must be saved by faith nothing we do however virtuous can be accomplished alone therefore we are saved by love no virtuous act is quite as virtuous from the standpoint of our friend or foe as it is from our standpoint therefore we must be saved by the final form of love which is forgiveness so I love that because it just says no matter what we do like we need Christ and we can't give ourselves the responsibility of making good or bad things happen because you could be the kindest most gentle sweetest person in the world and get stage 4 cancer like this glorious author that I've been telling you about or you could be a terrible person who takes advantage of people and manipulates and lies and cheats and steals and you know have perfect health and a beautiful home and you know what I mean so it's just it's kind of a toss-up you know I love that quote so much umm because like it through the prosperity gospel there's this idea that it's all up to us and that we have no help like either were being perfectly obedient and getting all the blessings that we want or were being 100% disobedient and suffering and being punished but that quote just reminds us that Heavenly Father sent his son to buoy us up and to be our advocate and to offer us you know love and then you know the Grace and everything like that because we can't get through this life on our own and that has nothing to do with whether or not we're gonna be blessed it's just because this life is hard and we have this small small perspective and we we don't know what to expect we don't know the right choices to make we can't see things the way that God sees things and so through his son we're able to forgive others were able to forgive ourselves we're able to love we're able to persevere I mean there there's just so much hope and joy and love in in God's true gospel and in all the gifts that he's given us and this prosperity gospel mindset just totally negates all of that I could agree more and hmm just to know further what was said you know were like what you said beliefs you know there's this idea that it is up to us but we're not going to get any help the beautiful thing about grace is that it's still up to us but we have all the help in the world and you know again it's it's that is what prosperity is – you know one definition is is that prosperity to me is knowing that I am not only developing you spiritually but also as as a person being able to be kind being able to forgive you I love what you suddenly so because of Christ we were able to forgive we're able to let go I move forward and progress instead of stunting our own growth because we can't let go of something that someone said four years ago it prosperity doesn't mean wealth it means being able to prosper as a person and to live your best life knowing that you are developing into the person God wants you to be and no one has the right to tell you what that looks like yeah absolutely um kind of to take it in a little bit of a different direction one thing that is to me so sad about this prosperity gospel mindset is you know I've seen people in my life who have this mindset and they're like I'm just gonna keep my head down and do what I'm supposed to do and wait for the blessings I'm just gonna have faith I'm gonna keep doing what I'm supposed to do and just wait because I have faith that God's gonna give me those blessings and they don't take the initiative to go out and decree eight opportunities and create opportunities for those blessings to come to them so I I guess what I mean is this like I'm just gonna keep working my simple job and keep doing you know my simple righteous noble honorable way of living and then one day my big break is gonna come I hope they play the lottery have you every weekend that's the case I know and hahaha and so direct there they have this hope that like okay I'm doing what I'm supposed to I'm being righteous and I'm just gonna wait and the blessings are gonna come or for example people and I know people who are sick and they're like well I'm living righteously I'm doing the things I'm supposed to do and so when God's ready to heal me heal heal me and then they die and then yeah I mean they die or they just live out their lives at this mediocre you know quality and and to me it's so sad because they're they're spending their lives just waiting for God to just it's because they feel deserving they feel entitled to something more right I think like a good example of this is I I worked really hard to get a part in this show that I was in did I necessarily deserve that part I mean who's to say was I entitled to it absolutely not like I worked hard for it and you can't just sit around and say like my luck will happen just because I'm right just like no you go and you make opportunities like you said the difference between the two like the difference between a feeling like you deserve or entitled something just because you're nice and you're righteous and like just being like working hard like that's the great thing about the American Dream is that from like for most people you really can work your butt off and get a lot of cool things from it but you aren't entitled to it just because you do good things you know what I mean right mm-hmm yeah yeah absolutely I mean that sense of entitlement or I think that like some people are just so unable to make choices on their own they're constantly waiting for God to tell them what to do or grant them with something instead of like oh well I'm not happy with my job but I haven't received any sign from God that I should leave it so I guess if I just keep being righteous that God will change it for me that he'll change a circumstance and then I'll be happy like I don't know I just don't want to go talk at the BYU university I'm not gonna lie for real they will never let me they would never let me they would never let you but why just so that you can set the records yeah and then at the end of it oh yeah teach all those Provo boys a lesson no seriously seriously but unfortunately it's not just at BYU where people have this I know it's mindset this is true we obviously we've talked a lot today about our thoughts about how toxic and harmful it is to believe that you're always entitled to something because you're a good person or because you didn't do things perfectly how your life is set this is our set on a path for destruction um I don't know like let us know what you guys think audience please chime in you know leave comments down below and let us know what do you think about the fact do you think that you know if you're righteous you are entitled to goodness and I don't know this is just obsession we definitely want to hear what you guys have to say I just think you know I think the basics like basic consensus consensus that we've come to today is that we can't tally up our good works and decide what kind of life we are supposed to have or someone else is supposed to have based on let me see your inner selves or what we see of other people's outside works it all comes life is random life is messy and we're lucky that we have God to love us through it what else do you guys have to say I think um oh go for it well well I think you for in conclusion you know I've given my opinion about what prosperity means and it's more than just the tangible things becoming better person more honest more loving more caring but with that I do want to give a voice of warning if in your life you do find that you find the financial security you want plus more because of how hard you work don't shy away from that always remember who gives you the blessing but don't shy away from what other people may not have yeah we're definitely not saying tonight we're just saying you're not entitled to it because you're a good person you're not entitled to a cos here because you're a good person but if you are blessed with it by your diligence and your your your courage then enjoy it don't back away from opportunities that can further your wealth or your education whatever it may be just remember that whether you get the raise the promotion the part or your big break or life Romania or LA or or you still just state you whatever you do don't start feeling like you deserve something more or start feeling you deserve something less I liked it I loved it I loved that I think that's so true Michael thanks for closing us out with that thought yeah yes so thank you guys for listening it's been great it's been fun I just like Savannah said leave a comment leave your opinion like our attitude here isn't to change anybody's opinion at the end of the day it's really ours just our opinion but if you want to debate I will entertain you our the happy to entertain you this is philosophies with friends you're our friends let's discuss and like and subscribe us and we will see you next week all right

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